Dr.PainCLE said:The GIP arm is doing real work rather than padding the label.
Dose-response modeling for tirzepatide: Emax model fitting to the STEP/SURMOUNT dose-finding data shows:
Semaglutide: ED50 ≈ 0.6mg, Emax ≈ -18%, Hill coefficient ≈ 1.3
Tirzepatide: ED50 ≈ 6mg, Emax ≈ -25%, Hill coefficient ≈ 1.5
Clinical implication: most patients achieve >80% of maximal response by the mid-range dose (1.7mg sema, 10mg tirz). Going to the maximum dose provides diminishing returns — possibly not worth the additional side effect burden for some patients. Individualize dosing based on response vs tolerability.
One thing that is still open after KevinCompounds’s answer:
How much of the tirzepatide advantage is the GIP component and how much is simply that the dose ladder goes higher in receptor-occupancy terms?
SleepDoc_PDX said:Dose-response modeling for tirzepatide: Emax model fitting to the STEP/SURMOUNT dose-finding data shows: Semaglutide: ED50 ≈ 0.6mg, Emax ≈ -18%, Hill…
There is a second half to this that has not been said yet. Training does two things here and only one of them is on the scale. It protects lean mass — which is the reason to do it — and it contributes modestly to the deficit, which is the reason people start and then quit when the arithmetic disappoints them. In a deep deficit, resistance work is the priority and high-volume cardio competes with recovery.
Worth separating that from training through weight loss, which this thread keeps folding into the same question. They behave differently and the advice does not transfer.
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Shop Reference StandardsReporting back.
Reporting back after another eight months at the same dose. Still losing slowly, no new side effects, and no reason I can find to climb further.
Dr.LeslieOBGYN said:Training does two things here and only one of them is on the scale.
True, though the ladder is longer and that is not a neutral detail — six dose steps means six opportunities to stall on the way up, and plenty of people never reach the dose the headline number came from.